Author Topic: Tigar Hybrid  (Read 3355 times)

Offline Momcha

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Tigar Hybrid
« on: 06-02-2010, 20:35:51 »
Kao i vecini vas,na mom stolu je zilion maketa u radu  >:D Ovo cudo planiram odavno samo nikako da nabavim sve delove neophodne za rad.
Zahvaljujuci Gusi nabavio sam "metalne" tockove i krenuo u izradu.Makta je 1/35 Italeri rani tigar,Tockovi su Afv-ovi.
Neke sitne delove sam dodao sa Tamiye.
Zimmerit je radjen dvokomponentnim Tamiya gitom i rolerom koji sam dobio od Milanka.


Zatim sam celu maketu preprskao Tamiya XF-60 bojom .Kupolu i zadnji deo na kome fali kutija za alat je prefarban Xf-59 bojom.Maskirne sare su
MM boje.Kako bi ublazio maskirnu semu i "docarao" vremenske prilike na boju isprskao sam celu maketu blago razredjenom MM sand.
Posle toga u sam u MMsand dodao malo zelene kako bi je jos malo izbledeo.

Vallejo panzer gray po oguljenim delovima tenka gde fali zimmerit.

I prvi sloj washa,sa figuramo koje bi trebalo da idu na vozilo.


Offline dragos

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Re: Tigar Hybrid
« Reply #1 on: 06-02-2010, 21:24:48 »
Definitivno si obogatio maketu.Hajde,matori uradi jedared recenziju oba ta Italerijeva Tigra,koje seme mogu da se rade,sta mora da se doradi i tako to?
   

Offline Hugo Sperle

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Re: Tigar Hybrid
« Reply #2 on: 07-02-2010, 04:06:24 »
Obrati paznju na boju F13... bila je dark panzer grey ili verovatnije OLIVE GREEN. F13 je najverovatnije nachapan belom bojom ne dovoljno gustom tako da izbijajuca osnovna boja cini svetliju nijansu. Obrati paznju samo na jaci beli outline... inace je to tenak iz skole za obuku, a zimmerit koji je proredjen stvara utisak "sarenijeg" kamuflaznog bojenja... >>> vise o referenci u tekstu i slikama i komentarima (ne tolko fotkama maketa)

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=73957&highlight=fehrmann
http://www.smallscaleafvforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3155&sid=ac7ba52de6da43ef557ee7755127cb4b
http://www.panzer-modell.de/specials/leserbilder/tiger_late_aw/tiger.htm
http://www.modelforum.cz/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=29085&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

A evo i malog istorijata o Fehrmann grupi:

Tiger F02, an early model Tiger I commanded by Unteroffizier Franzen was in action against the British 11th Armored Division, 3 RTR and 4 KSLI near Essel in April 1945.
The last known position of ‘F02’ (Commander Uffz Frieling) was in the Ostenholzer Moor/Heide Kröppke area. This unit was Tiger-Gruppe Fehrmann, which consisted of 5 Panthers and 6 Tiger I’s under the command of Oberleutnant Fehrmann. These vehicles had come from a school and the unit fought April 6-13, 1945 in the Ruhr Pocket. The unit was drawn from rebuilt hybrid Tigers from the Lehr school at Fallingbostel and they were Dunkelgrau in color. The 5 Panthers of KG Schulze/Aufstellungstab Lehrtruppe operating with the Tigergruppe of Lt. Fehrmann's 6 hybrid Tiger I’s were also supposedly IR-equipped but no known pictures show this fitted.

The unit was commanded by Major Paul Schulze and lost in a daylight attack on the eastern outskirts of the town of Bückeburg, near Bad Eilsen - about 65km northeast of the Paderborn training grounds. They were trapped between lead elements of the 5th Armored Division and US 8th Corps of the Ninth Army on April 8-11, 1945. The first Tiger however, was lost on April 5, 1945 with gearbox problems near Rethem. The group moved to the woods near Wiedensahl on the 8th and launched an attack against the British bridgehead on the Weser near Wietersheim and lost 4 of the 5 Panthers in the process with only Schulze's vehicle remaining by noon (call sign red stylized "S").

Along with Fehrmann's 5 remaining Tigers, he repeated the attack but met elements of the British 6th Airborne Division dug into roadside trenches. A PIAT shell hit the turret of Fehrmann's ‘F01’ and damaged the traversing gear while 2 other Tigers moved up to flank it, allowing ‘F01’ to retreat to a nearby hill. The 5 Tigers later returned to Frille with around 30 POWs.

Tiger ‘F01’ returned to Fallingbostel for repairs, while the remaining 4 Tigers and Schulze's Panther again clashed with lead elements of US 5th Armored Division near Bückeburg on the 11th losing 2 Tigers, Schulze's Panther and 2 halftracks in the process. Schulze escaped and jumped into one of the 2 surviving Tigers but Fehrmann was captured. Soon after, another Tiger (Fwb. Bellof's) was KO'd.

"Schulze's Tiger" now the last remaining (apart from "F01" back at Fallingbostel), was still behind US lines now retreating to Achum and became engaged in another firefight with more US 5th Armored Division armor, KOing 3 tanks and an A/C (armored carrier) though sustaining numerous hits and in the process slightly wounding the gunner. Finding a map in a US tanker truck, he set out for German lines breaking a US roadblock and KOing more US armor while releasing 200 German POWs, some of whom joined him in US trucks in an effort to get back. However, he ran out of fuel near Bad-Nennoff, where he set a charge, and destroyed the Tiger.

Franzen's ‘F01’ which had earlier returned to Fallingbostel with the damaged turret gear was ready to go again on April 12 and cobbled into the hastily formed "Kampfgruppe Grossan" along with a couple of other Tigers. It advanced toward the British near the Essel Forest after crossing the Drebber stream, encountering 3 Comets of 1st Troop, A Squadron, 3rd Battalion and 3 RTR/11th Armored Division in a firefight destroying 1 of them and an armored car. Both sides withdrew for the night but the next morning the Tiger took out an APC and drew a barrage of fire, so it snuck into the woods. Creeping back on to the road again to feel out the British tanks, ‘F01’ received a hit in the left rear side from about 100 yards by the Comet of Sergeant Harding of C Squadron who had moved into flanking position in the trees and was later to receive the Military Medal for this action. Comets of 3RTR carried the number '52' and the 'Charging Bull' emblem. The Bull meant 11th Armoured Division and '52' meant the 2nd Regiment in the Brigade, in this case 3RTR. As the Tiger began to cook off, the crew all managed to bail out safely, though each with minor burns, and made their way back to Fallingbostel.

All 6 Tiger I’s in Tiger-Gruppe Fehrmann were basically rebuilt Earlies with steel wheels some with zimmerit and 5 Panthers supposedly equipped with IR in Kampf Gruppe Schulze. All production steel wheel Tigers had zimmerit. There were no examples to show otherwise, however 'technically' there were some hybrid steel wheelers with early production hulls/turrets that had no zimmerit which were rebuilt examples and in no way were representative of the production batch.

’F01’ of Tigergruppe "Fehrmann" initially belonging to KG "Schulze" (then KG "Grossan") and KO'd by a British Comet on 13th of April 1945 is an Early/late cross. Its one of the handful of rebuilt/cobbled together Tigers from the Truppeschule near Paderborn at war's end. It wears zimmerit on the hull and turret and has late wheels and tracks.

Tiger ‘F13’ was painted overall dark panzer grey (olive green je ipak vise verovatna) and the numbers were hand painted red (bice da je ipak bela... pogledaj fotke i moj komentar s pocetka) with a white outline. This tank had the old dish type road wheels. Tiger ‘F13’ had zimmerit on the hull and turret.

These are the only 2 early Tiger I's in existance with zimmerit as evidenced in photos.

All steelwheel Tigers had factory zimmerit and most mid (cupola) Tigers had zimmerit. There was about a month when mids did not get zimmerit. These only went to a couple of units (506). There are even a few earlies seen with zim (502). These undoubtly had been returned to the factory for a major rebuild, as zimmerit application was a major undertaking. I've never seen anything that points to "field" application. The hybrid/wierd late war Tigers could have a variety of features and combinations. But this is a very select group. So check your references carefully.

References:

"Tigers in Combat 2" pp. 404-408

"Tiger Tanks" by Michael Green

AFV News issue Jan-April '91 (Vol.26/1) by Giuseppe Finizio pp.2-5.

Guiseppe Finizio’s self-published book entitled "Krieg in der Heimat" distributed by Ulrich Saft. In it was a chapter entitled "The Story of Tiger F02".
« Last Edit: 07-02-2010, 04:21:34 by Hugo Sperle »

Offline Momcha

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Re: Tigar Hybrid
« Reply #3 on: 07-02-2010, 10:18:45 »
Hvala na ovom clanku ali clanak sa Axis foruma i jos neki se u nekim delovima slazu sa
ovim u nekim ne.Ovde stoji da su svi imali celicne tockove.Nisu,F02 je bio klasican
rani tigar.

Sto se tice farbanja,tu se i danas lome koplja koju je zapravo boju imao ovaj F13.
Neki pretpostavljaju da je bio siv u osnovi zato sto je tenk sklepan za ratiste,sto se moze
i videti.Ostali delovi su sa pretpostavkom dobijali boju,odnosno verovatno su imali kamuflazu
preko osnovne zute.Zelena boja se pominje kao moguca iz razloga sto su "neki" nemacki tenkovi bili
tako farbani u zadnjim mesecima rata.

Pronaso sam npr da se zimmerit na F13 razlikovao .Na kupoli je imao kako kazu finiji nanos,odnosno fabricki,
jer je verovatno kupola iz perioda kad je radjen na takav nacin,a da je na telu-sasiji imao grublji odnosno nanosen na terenu.
Sad,sve su ovo pretpostavke.Ne mora da znaci da je sve sto sam i ja naso taco.Kad sam uzeo da radim ovaj
konkretni primerak,procitao sam na par foruma i u par knjiga neke stvari koje bi koliko  toliko mogle da
nagoveste o cemu se radi.Cak se i za broj na kupoli mnogi spore u kojoj je stvarno boji bio.

Videcu da li cu ista da menjam.Za sada ostaje ovakav.Cekam na jos par5 foruma "strucno" misljenje  ;D

BTW,Italeri je najavio Hybrida u 1/35 za ovu godinu  :cry :headbang

Offline Aki

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Re: Tigar Hybrid
« Reply #4 on: 07-02-2010, 13:29:33 »
Odlicno si uradio semu,svidja mi se.
Samo cimerit na telu deluje predebelo  :-\

Offline Hugo Sperle

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Re: Tigar Hybrid
« Reply #5 on: 07-02-2010, 15:59:30 »
Hej... Bilo kako bilo TVOJ rad odaje kvalitnog maketara... ja sam morao malo da "cacnem" polemiku oko istorijskog aspekta, ali za mene, na fotografijama je kvalitetno odradjena maketa velkog T. Nemoj mnogo da razmisljas sta da mu menjas... samo ga zavrsi... Ja tu ne bih nista vise dir`o... ;)

A sto se Italerijevog novog kombinovanog tice... eto prilike da uradis i zelenog ili sivog, ako te tematika jos bude drzala... Ziveli

Offline Momcha

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Re: Tigar Hybrid
« Reply #6 on: 10-02-2010, 14:40:42 »
E sad ovako,na Tigru ima jos malo da se radi pa razmisljam o diorami.Jedna od varijanti je da na Tigru budu pan.
gran. iz jedinice kojoj se Fehrman grupa prikljucila i recimo Horh sa nekim oficirom u obilasku.Druga varijanta
je da Tigra ostavim napusetnog i da npr. M24 prolazi pored njega.Samo u tom slucaju ne znam kao Tigar treba da
izgleda jer je po istoriskim podacima stradao od paljbe sa americke strane zajedno sa posadom.
U slucaju,mislim F02 granata je probila tenk sa bocne strane i nije nacinila nikakvo vece razaranje spolja
(unutra ko zna sta je bilo).Za F13 ne postoji slika unistenog tako da sto se tice varijante dva..........?
I ako neko moze da mi pomogne,da li bih u prvom slucaju mogao vojsku na tenku da ofarbam u SS uniformama?


Offline Momcha

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Re: Tigar Hybrid
« Reply #7 on: 15-02-2010, 19:53:33 »
Odluka je pala na Horch-a.Par fotki:




Jos samo da uradim instrument tablu,sofersjbnu i figure za njega :)

Offline gasha

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Re: Tigar Hybrid
« Reply #8 on: 16-02-2010, 11:29:59 »
Mislim da si sa chipovanjem Horch-a malo preterao. Ipak bi to ublazio za 50%. Tu i tamo da je zveknut pa da je oguljena farba je ok ali ovoliko deluje ka sa otpada. Jeste da mi se mnogo svidja i da je efekat odlican ali mislim da je preterano. Mozda i gresim, ako imas koju fotku takvog vozila daj je. To bi znacilo da je farba bila zaista losa.

Offline Momcha

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Re: Tigar Hybrid
« Reply #9 on: 16-02-2010, 13:32:06 »
Namerno sam ga toliko izgulio je racunam da je bila 45-ta i sve jej vec bilo dotrajalo.

Offline Momcha

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Re: Tigar Hybrid
« Reply #10 on: 30-04-2010, 16:35:09 »
Posle duze pauze evo malog napredka na diorami.Uradio sam zemljane  ;D radove,nabacao travu i poceo sa radom na figurama,
naravno koliko to slobodno vreme dozvoljava.Da ne duzim mnogo evo par fotki:

Srdjan

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Re: Tigar Hybrid
« Reply #11 on: 10-02-2011, 10:44:11 »
Ovaj rad nisam video ranije. Odusevio sam se!!! Treba mi jedan kratak savet: kako si pravio travu? Izgleda bruka realno!

Offline Momcha

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Re: Tigar Hybrid
« Reply #12 on: 10-02-2011, 13:53:34 »
Noch i Heki (trava za zeleznicu) moze se nabaviti u N.Sadu od ljudi koji rade sa stvarima za zeleznicu.Ako te zanima mogu na pm
da ti posaljem telefon.
Inace kanim se odavno da zavrsim ovu dioramu.

Offline gasha

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Re: Tigar Hybrid
« Reply #13 on: 10-02-2011, 15:00:13 »
Nema sta Momcho, sveukupno odaje vrlo lep utisak. Svidja mi se i sto si se potrudio oko figura, razlicita boja kose, razne uniforme karakteristicne za taj period.

Svidja mi se  :super